OLD THREAD on Constructive Criticism revisted

Private is better... and solicited advice is better received than unsolicited, so if you want advice, solicit some!

Elizabeth

My entry at Public Radio Quest:
http://www.publicradioquest.com/audio/user/7572

My College Radio Myspace (feel free to friend me!):
http://www.myspace.com/girlsongprimerradio

I agree. After posting this topic (4 weeks ago) I had several wonderful people send me an e-mail with great feedback. They picked my piece apart gently and gave me some really great ideas about how to improve. I am so grateful that they took the time to do that. I also had a couple of people critique me on my page, which actually was kind of a bummer. Even though I asked for it, I found I really did prefer (in this context, at least) the more private and personal e-mail. I have a thick skin, and I seek out tough editors/critics for my work because I know it makes me a more effective creative person. But, it has been such an amazing thing to find so much support in this budding Quest community. I hope to keep in touch with many of you.

ez

So people can be more candid. I would be very reluctant to post an un-supportive message unless I find the content to be appalling and/or offensive, because that might set a trend for future comments on that person's piece.

and then you don't have to see the negative comments every time you look at your entry. Which would be a bummer.

Elizabeth

My entry at Public Radio Quest:
http://www.publicradioquest.com/audio/user/7572

My College Radio Myspace (feel free to friend me!):
http://www.myspace.com/girlsongprimerradio

Heh, yeah. Someone else commented earlier in this thread (I think) that such a comment could also color others' responses to the entry. But, the same could be said for super positive feedback as well.

ez

I tend to take the super positive but non specific comments as being rather meaningless when I am voting. I also like comments about my show that tell me something specific about it. A lot of the super positive non-specific comments are just 11 pointers.

I just think that in an arena where almost every comment is positive or close to positive, the negative ones make a lot more impact and people should think carefully about what they are saying and doing... if they are making such comments. But most people aren't so it is kind of a non-issue.

That's just part of why I haven't posted almost any negative things unless, like i said, the content was offensive, or unless, sigh, the good concept was completely outweighed by distortion. Those entries make me sad because i want them to be better.

I can handle a little negativity, but I am glad that almost all of my comments are totally positive because A. I know I am not going to win and am not deluded by them so B. i might as well feel good about my entry. haha

E

My entry at Public Radio Quest:
http://www.publicradioquest.com/audio/user/7572

My College Radio Myspace (feel free to friend me!):
http://www.myspace.com/girlsongprimerradio

Yup, feeling good is pretty, well ... good.

I also like the people who specifically spoke to aspects of the piece they liked, or felt strongest about. What they leave out is really telling (like that one entry ... what was his name? ... it was about camels, oh yeah!"The Absence of Camels" http://www.publicradioquest.com/node/1460). I've found these detailed comments (in their content and omissions) to be very helpful, actually, in determining what "worked" from what didn't.

ez

For pure negative comments, I agree it has to be private and needs to work out, but you need some criticism even if its good work. What I don't want in the second round is the contestants get high and mighty from the comments in the first round and sink in the next round. This is why I give little shots even for 5 star people because although your good, you need to still keep work at it. Also, if you want to be host in public radio, you are going to get criticism. You might be talented, but there needs to be a push.

Yup. This is exactly why I originally posted this topic. I tend to prefer criticism over praise (but it does feel good). But, I really do like the e-mail approach. Your feedback was incredibly welcomed, by the way, both on my entry and here/now. But, I don't think any of this current debate really means much right now. What's done is, almost, done.

As for falling flat on their huge egos, I think how one handles praise/fame will prove important in the next rounds. It should help weed out the slackers, who will stop working hard after advancing to the next round.

ez

I hadn't listened to that entry until you posted it. Just did and it is good.

Thanks

E

My entry at Public Radio Quest:
http://www.publicradioquest.com/audio/user/7572

My College Radio Myspace (feel free to friend me!):
http://www.myspace.com/girlsongprimerradio

Great! I really liked that one. It is still front and center in my noggin, even after blasting my brain with listening to almost all of these entries! 125 to go! Yeah! -ez

...today. I really should be writing my thesis. But the PRTQ is addictive. I won't finish all the entries but i hope to make it beyond 600. Which is a pretty good number for a non-finisher I think. Respectable, anyways.

:)

Elizabeth

My entry at Public Radio Quest:
http://www.publicradioquest.com/audio/user/7572

My College Radio Myspace (feel free to friend me!):
http://www.myspace.com/girlsongprimerradio

Ok, so it was a totally random goal. And 601 isn't half. But now that i have hit it i can maybe break my prtq obsession. sigh. unless someone posts on mine, then I will definitely return the favor, hahaha.

anyways, i was mostly following your comments (and the random button) around for the last few entries. Cuz you have good taste.

Elizabeth

My entry at Public Radio Quest:
http://www.publicradioquest.com/audio/user/7572

My College Radio Myspace (feel free to friend me!):
http://www.myspace.com/girlsongprimerradio

about constructive comments could see what other people had to say about it earlier on in the contest.

I have to agree with Julie.

Before I posted my submission, I asked several people to provide me with feedback. I was able to make use of the criticisms that I received.

There are many submissions which in my opinion miss the mark, but I am not going to post a comment telling the submitter how it is that I think they could have done better, now that it is too late.

Steve

It falls to the enlightened, and the intelligent and the sane to take responsibility for the deluded or doltish or insane.

Thank you! I would really appreciate that. I'll trust you won't beat me up. I've been holding back, too. Just didn't know if other people would take it the right way. I just don't want to hurt anyone who may be sensitive and new at this.

I guess I'm a subscriber to the "bring it on" school of life. I'd rather know what didn't work so I can get better.

Elizabeth

Hi Elizabeth -

I share your views on constructive criticism - in my alternate life as a writer, I'd much rather hear, "OK, but why did so-and-so do such-and-such?" or "The pacing was a little slow" than "Perfect!" because it's so much more useful. But the no-do-overs thing does sort of change the field in this context. I've posted minor constructive criticisms to point out (overall insignificant) blips in an otherwise enjoyable piece, but have tried to stick to the postitive so far. Especially since I worry about the bias anything remotely critical will impose upon subsequent commenters/voters.

You know, one poster e-mailed me privately with constructive criticisms, and I really appreciated the feedback. I thought that was an immensely kind and tactful compromise.

But I'll give your entry a go, if you like, and see if I can make any suggestions.

If you feel so compelled, would you mind e-mailing those comments? I didn't think about the biasing other voters angle before I launched this topic. I'm going to go add a comment suggesting anyone who wants to can pick me apart in an e-mail.

Thanks so much for responding to this question. I've been dying to ask it for days, then just decided, "What the heck?" I really appreciate your feedback.

Elizabeth

Done :)

To what an individual enjoys or has affinity for.

Personally, as a writer, in workshops I've found that what one person sees as creativity or expression, another views no logical significance. Sometimes, folks are critical and offer their feedback from a different place. In this competition, I think I know my weaknesses, most of us I'm sure recorded our pieces exactly until we felt comfortable. Speak my name is rushed and fast-talking...I edited it down a million times to fit into 2 minutes. The more I listen, I begin to be embarrassed by an accent I didn't know I had...
But hey, it's out here now.

I'd suggest that we allow the judges of this competition to be the judges this go round. keep a listing of everyone's contact info that you connect with or whom you believe needs a little coaching/critique and get with them after round one...of course that is only if you genuinely are concerned about their professional progress.

Then too, I'm very particular with my comments...only the best picks in the bunch get my kudos.
Elizabeth, yours has!

I think there are only two types of criticisms that matter. The first is where I tell you what I see in your work. And that only matters in so much as whether what I see relates at all to what you wanted me to see. The second, and far more important criticism, is how much cash money I'm going to give you for it. Today. In your hot little hand.

The bottom line about criticism is that it's really more about the critic than the artist. And when it's another artist criticizing you, well, that can be VERY problematic. Oscar says somewhere that a great artist can not really appreciate any one else's art and he's got something there. They are so wrapped up in THEIR thing, how can they ever really see MY thing? Picasso was undoubtably a great artist, but I'm not sure how I would have profited from him criticizing my visual work?

More to the point - I had a novelist friend comment on some writing of mine. I was devastated by her relatively mild remarks. But after thinking about them way too much, I finally heard what she was really saying. She was looking at what I was writing and comparing it to her own work and - surprise! - she found it lacking. But what I was doing wasn't at all what SHE was doing. So of course it was lacking. Duh-UH!

That said, I'm always open to what anyone has to say. Even the non-professionals. Especially the non-professionals. After all, it took the little kid to point out that the Emperor had no clothes.

*n*

"The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about" - Oscar Wilde

Great response, Lakeisha!

I know this is off topic, but I think you're fabulous. Look me up if you're ever in Kentucky, OK?

Heather

Fabulous, umm...thanks much! And if ever I'm in kentucky I'll surley find you. In fact I thought of you driving home this evening when my daughter asked me another impossible question that made me totally question the validity and value of my educational background...I mean when you're not capable of answering a 7 year olds queries then you just feel plain dumb. At least in the moment.
I thought, if only I had Dr. Ryan's show playing on the radio, she would have answered for me.
Hope to hear you Dr. Ryan in round two...and I mean that in the most constructive way;)

And 7 year olds ask some of the hardest questions of anyone, I find. I used to love those Calvin and Hobbes strips where Calvin would ask one of the Tough Questions, and his dad would make up some outrageous lie in response... I wish he were real - if I had a show, I'd bring him on as a sort of scientific Stephen Colbert :)

Thanks for thinking of me! It's such a nice compliment!